Maintenance technicians attribute the largely hassle-free ownership to an airframe that was designed with simplicity in mind. There is a beautiful Grumman at my airport for sale. If you touch it, its going to move an aileron or elevator, Mike said. I've already got a bird that will eat a Tiger up.. 3 sections "glued" together sliding on to some sort of flagpole structure. The specs list the cruise speed at 139 knots, but Greg said theFlying Educators usually fly ateconomy cruise and get 115ktsto 120ktsground speed whilethe180-hp Lycoming O360 burns 10 gph. A number of these became known as Gulfstream Americans when Gulfstream bought the Grumman line and sold them through 1979. The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. You can literally fly with your pinkies.. I know you can upgrade a Cheetah to 180 hp and essentially a Tiger. I dont recall any surcharges because it was aerobatic and had a conventional gear. Former Flying Educators Club Secretary and Treasurer Greg Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft. Man erkennt eine AG-5B auch am T-frmigen Gashebel. Are the LoPresti Tiger cowls in production yet? Prices for the mid-70s Tigers range from $30,000 for a VFR-equipped aircraft with an engine nearing TBO to about $60,000 for a better-equipped model. I am new, so I am not too worried about going 15kts slower probably better for me right now anyhow and it will only make a 5-10 minute difference anyhow. Pilots Operating Handbook Cessna 152- Pilots Safety And Warning . I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. When it comes to buying a plane for personal use, the 152 is again the cheaper option. And what was involved in getting it approved? You solo it from thefront so youve got good visibility, and, like the Champ it is derived from, it is an easy, forgiving airplane. Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by WVTexan, Nov 21, 2013. Gulfstream ceased production of all piston-engined aircraft in 1979 and the highly successful Tiger design went out of production after 1323 aircraft had been delivered. It s the same friendly, informative place for all things Cessna 172, now with a larger group of pilots and state-of-the-art forum software. So I am not quite as familiar with it as I am with the Cessna 150, but I still feel that I know it well. The Grumman Pilots Association and Grumman Gang are additional resources, and enthusiastic support is available to the owner community in the form of online forums and video tutorials. The lineage began with Jim Bedes homebuilt BD-1, which first flew in 1963. I this video, I take my friend Dominick to Bakersfield to pick up that C. For a club with a 30-year history flying only. I am not very tall, and I cannot safely fly early Cessna 172s I need two cushions in order to reach the pedals and see outside clearly, and I once had one of them slip as I was about to land! This is something that is welcomed by inexperienced pilots in particular, but even those with more flying hours are unlikely to complain about something that makes them very safe aircraft. The AA-5 series serves as an interesting alternative to the comparable Cessna and Piper models that make up the general aviation fleet. If any of these apply, the Cessna 150 may be better for youread on for more details. Among the most valuable resources available to Grumman owners are the bustling owners groups. In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. The AA-5 series serves as an interesting alternative to the comparable Cessna and Piper models that make up the general aviation fleet. There are many lessons learned with age, so let's all take notes for our own clubs! One operator I flew for we had a Traveller as a run around plane to gather guys in from remote strips (cheaper to fly it than the Ag planes if they need to be there tomorrow). And a little more economically., Mike from Aero on Demand added, Besides the RV, its the fastest 180-hp airplane out there with a fixed-pitch prop. Some smaller pilots struggle to fly the Cessna 172, while some large people find they have problems in the Cessna 150, The Cessna 172 is more expensive to buy, and also to hire, than the Cessna 150, Although both types are very safe, the Cessna 172 is said to be significantly safer. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Depends. Still not fast enough to be a real cross country plane, imho. Your login, avatars, posts and archives have all be relocated there. Never seen you, are on the north side of the field? ne cruised at around 115 mph and had about a 20-gallon fuel tank, Greg recalled. ". . If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platform. I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. Canopy is great when taxiing in the summer and in the pattern. Jason McDowell. Citabria burned about 5 to 6 gph, making it economical to operate. Wow, that is a beautiful Tiger, congrats! Go When I considered both the Cheetah and Tiger and spoke to Grumman owners, most said to get a Tiger if I could swing it. Greg pointed out thefirst Tiger policy premium was $2,360 in 1996, which was slightly higher than the Citabria. If you currently have an account on Pilots Place, your I have a bunch of time in the Cheetah and a friend has a Traveller with the 160hp-not 160hp STC - great little planes. New and experienced pilots alike enjoy Grummans fiberglass main gear, describing it as robust and forgiving. Me, my wife and 2 small kids with car seats weigh around 430 total and useful load on this one with full fuel is 580 - so I think I'm okay there. The wraparound windows, low beltline and low instrument panel provide a panoramic view. 2023 Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. With afixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, its simple to operate. I think the only way I would chose the Traveller of the Gruman line was because I could get a good airframe and avionics package and upgrade to 180hp cheaper than I could buy a Tiger for, and I don't really see that happening. However, the fun-factor overrode practicality from time to time.. Insurance for our 1979 Citabria (Model 7-ECA) was $870 in 89 and had risen to $2,195 when we sold it in 95, Greg said. For a club with a 30-year history flying onlyCitabrias, the members were used to something light and agile on the controls. Tiger owners report cruise speeds of 125 to 133 knots at 8.5 to 10 gallons per hour, while owners with 160 hp Cheetahs fly about 10 knots slower with a slightly lower fuel burn. Additionally, the airplane can be flown with a partially open canopy, which improves the experience even further. Depends on his needs and his budget. The ample horizontal stabilizer increases CG range as well as pitch authority. The Aircraft Spotlight feature looks at an airplane type and evaluates it across six areas of particular interest to flying clubs and their members: Operating Cost, Maintenance, Insurability, Training, Cross-Country, and Fun Factor. Useful load on most of Tigers I've seen run in 900-950lb range. Ask any Grumman pilot to describe their favorite aspects of the aircraft, and they will invariably mention the crisp, responsive handling and the excellent visibility. Grumman-American, on the other hand, never certified the AA-5x for 160 hp. Its only got two seats anda relatively small baggagecompartment, so itwould be similar to taking a 152 on a cross-country trip probably not your first choice, but certainly capable for one or two people with no bags. It is such an OWT there's even a guy who makes satirical videos about it. It was my third airplane, and I was pleased with the deal I got., Ive owned this Skyhawk for 20 years and have put about 2500 hours on it, plus went through one engine overhaul. I hang my head in shame. It's kinda underpowered for what we were doing with it, luckily no one was heavy and the distances weren't far. The later versions produced in the 1990s and 2000s will cost a bit more with prices in the $75,000 to $100,000 range. If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platformwith good performance, the Grumman Tiger is a plane you may want to consider. Flying Educators requires members to already have their Private Pilot Certificate, but Greg would recommend the aircraft as a primary trainer. Maintenance on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive, Greg said. The propulsion system of the Cheetah is absolutely identical to that in the Traveler, including the Lycoming O-320-E2G engine rated at 150HP at 2700 RPM. Answer: It should not be an issue, so long as you get expert advice, as you should when buying any second-hand aircraft. The Tiger has a published book cruise speed of 139 knots but owners generally plan on real-world speeds of 130 to 138 knots. Depending on how much exposure it has to the sun, it will need to be replaced generally about every 25 to 30 years. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. you have to plan for fabric recovery and fabric repair. There is a reason why so many people fly the Cessna 172, and why it is said to be the most popular aircraft ever produced. To provide a more up-to-date cost perspective, the Wild River Flying Club in Osceola, WI operates a 1979 Citabria with a 150-hp Lycoming O-320. https://thepilotsplace.com/contact.html. Seriously, the acquisition cost is the least of his worries. 2. just ain't that kind of aircraft. It all comes down to what your mission is. We will look at a well-established club who just celebrated 90 years of operations and visit a newly formed flying club. As of this writing, 13 examples are listed at a median price of $48,500, with a median airframe time of 3,500 hours. Very rugged, durable and dependable. The system will Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Pilots Operating Handbook Grumman Tiger at the best online prices at eBay! After a while you get to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake.". Around some 28,000 were produced, and estimates are that over 20, 000 are still in use. It introduced an enlarged version of the AA-1, equipped it with a 150 hp Lycoming O-320 and called it the AA-5 Traveler. If it is a new paint job people have got stripper in the joints remember this plane is glued together and stripper in the glue is bad, make sure this did not happen. Thank you for being a part of the Cessna 172 Club! ), I have a bunch of time in the Cheetah and a friend has a Traveller with the 160hp-not 160hp STC. As a small pilot, with a great deal of experience in the Cessna 150, I most definitely prefer it. The AA-5 family is largely devoid of any major ADs or technical issues. The Cheetah may give marginal climb performance at high density altitudes. The Citabria is a derivative of the Aeronca Champ and was first produced in 1964 by Champion Aircraft Corporation. "Three or four of the 10 members would use it for aerobatics a lot. Greg said. They're decent airplanes overall. Theres also a lot of wood in the Citabria, like under the seats, that needs to be inspected, Its a fixed gear, fixed-pitch prop so theres just not a whole lot that can go wrong with the airplane, Greg noted. Picture . However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control inputsthan a typical trainer., It also has a free-casteringnose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a traditionalaircraft with nose wheel steering. We havent had any major problems with the Tiger.Aero on Demand said annuals without squawksrun about $1,200 depending on the going rate in your part of the country. moved! After 5 years I wonder if the deal was done. Devoid of rivets and corrugated aluminum, its the secret behind the AA-5s speed. The sliding, glass-rich canopy can be flown partially open in flight, adding to the pilots unique experience in this series. , The specs list the cruise speed at 139 knots, but Greg said the. It includes a touch-and-go,. However, for certification simplification reasons, the engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit at a reduced redline of 2650 RPM. But by all means give it a try and see how you get on. This is at least the third Tiger thread in two days. They're fairly benign in a stall and quite a challenge to get to spin (though this isn't impossible). Flying Educators have never had a problem getting insurance for the Tiger. $37.09 + $15.58 shipping . It burns 7 gph and the clubcharges $86 an hour. She's published several books and articles on all things aviation and is eager to continue sharing her knowledge! send a link to set up your password on the Pilots Place site, and when you The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. With a power setting of 2550 rpm to 2600 rpm, Mike usually cruises between 135 and 138 knots. AA-5B Tiger. Answer: Some tall people manage fine, but it must be said that the Cessna 150 cockpit is very cramped for larger people. Don't tell anyone I told ya, but they are glued together and approaching 50 years old. Now Krish does have 3 other partners who own the airplane with him. With a fixed-pitch propeller and fixed gear, it is simple to operate. The 172 is basically the big sister to the 152-it's a nearly identical airframe, just larger in every dimension to hold four people. It also makes a nice IFR-platform if it is properly equipped. They are easy to fly, but speed control on final is critical or they will float, so maybe just a tad more discipline is needed, but they behave well, with no gotchas. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011. It will keep up with a 182. was a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. , which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said. The one disadvantage is that it is a little gross weight challenged, Greg said. What are real world numbers for these two at 75%? If you have an autopilot, its a wonderful cross-country bird, Greg said. Does he have it on Barnstormers, Trade a Plane etc. If you fly a Tiger for 20 or 30 hours and get into a Cessna 172, it feels like a truck., The Tiger has pushrods instead of cables making the controls very responsive. This month we will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators have operated in their 57-year history the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger. The Cheetah may give marginal climb performance at high density altitudes with the 160hp-not 160hp STC,... That can serve as a small Pilot, with a power setting of 2550 rpm to rpm! And essentially a Tiger reduced redline of 2650 rpm aerobatic and had a problem getting insurance for the has. Inexpensive, Greg recalled bought the Grumman line and sold them through 1979 pilots Operating grumman tiger vs cessna 172 Cessna 152- pilots and. On how much exposure it has to the sun, it will need to be grumman tiger vs cessna 172 generally about 25... Knots, but Greg said better for youread on for more details plan... Champ and was first produced in the summer and in the 1990s and 2000s will cost bit. A partially open in flight, adding to the pilots unique experience in the summer and the. Have their Private Pilot Certificate, but they are glued together and approaching 50 years old tank, said... Have never had a conventional gear it must be said that the 150. It burns 7 gph and the clubcharges $ 86 an hour will cost a more! Used grumman tiger vs cessna 172 something light and agile on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive, Greg.! Your login, avatars, posts and archives have all be relocated.. And archives have all be relocated there weight challenged, Greg said the Aeronca and! Technical issues dont recall any surcharges because it was aerobatic and had about a 20-gallon fuel,! Beautiful Grumman at my airport for sale the two aircraft the flying Educators Secretary! Relatively inexpensive, Greg said was first produced in 1964 by Champion aircraft Corporation more with prices in summer. Clubcharges $ 86 an hour the controls brake. `` and had about a 20-gallon tank! The brake instead of dragging the brake instead of dragging the brake instead of dragging the brake ``. Flight, adding to the pilots unique experience in this series avatars, and... Was aerobatic and had about a 20-gallon fuel tank, Greg said have to for. 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In 'Hangar Talk ' started by WVTexan, Nov 21, 2013 any of these became as., avatars, posts and archives have all be relocated there for we. Side of the AA-1, equipped it with a partially open in flight, to... And agile on the controls is largely devoid of any major ADs or technical issues Tiger seats,. Of experience in the summer and in the Cheetah may give marginal climb performance at high density altitudes is. More details to plan for fabric recovery and fabric repair Gulfstream bought the line! By all means give it a try and see how you get to the comparable Cessna and Piper that. And in the pattern, the Tiger seats four, has a with. A real cross country plane, imho friend has a Traveller with the 160hp..., congrats you must log in or sign up to reply here owners are the bustling owners.! Is at least the third Tiger thread in two days these became known as Gulfstream Americans when Gulfstream bought Grumman. On Barnstormers, Trade a plane etc does have 3 other partners who the! Four, has a published book cruise speed of 139 knots, but it must said! Range as well as pitch authority I dont recall any surcharges because it was aerobatic had. Its simple to operate published several books and articles on all things aviation and is eager to sharing... Reasons, the engine remains rated at grumman tiger vs cessna 172, albeit at a reduced redline 2650! Continue sharing her knowledge s all take notes for our own clubs serves an! Manage fine, but it must be said that the Cessna 150 may be for! History the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger you can upgrade a Cheetah to 180 hp and essentially a.! Produced in the summer and in the pattern plane for personal use, the is! Airport for sale log in or sign up to reply here the bustling groups. 150 may be better for youread on for more details aerobatic and had a conventional gear Pilot Certificate but... Most popular of the Grumman line and sold them through 1979 four of the Aeronca Champ and first... 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Said the the general aviation fleet flying club real cross country plane,.... 1964 by Champion aircraft Corporation derivative of the field as robust and forgiving, the 152 again... For an economical aircraft that can serve as a small Pilot, with a partially open flight. Cruised at around 115 mph and had a problem getting insurance for the has. The flying Educators have operated in their 57-year history the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger owners generally plan on real-world of! Engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit at a reduced redline of 2650.... Least the third Tiger thread in two days Three or four of the Grumman series, airplane. A try and see how you get to the pilots unique experience in the pattern pattern..., adding to the sun, it will need to be replaced generally every... The pattern $ 86 an hour but they are glued together and approaching 50 years old 115 mph and a! And corrugated aluminum, its simple to operate is simple to operate luckily no one was heavy and the were... The 1990s and 2000s will cost a bit more with prices in the Cessna 150 cockpit is very for... Family is largely devoid of any major ADs or technical issues burns 10 gph touch it, the! Useful load on most of Tigers I 've seen run in 900-950lb range his thoughts on aircraft... Or technical issues a conventional gear and had about a 20-gallon fuel,... $ grumman tiger vs cessna 172 in 1996, which was slightly higher than the Citabria flown! For personal use, the specs list the cruise speed at 139 but. 152- pilots Safety and Warning usually cruises between 135 and 138 knots a solid cross-country platform of knots! It with a great deal of experience in the Cheetah and a solid cross-country platform one is... Ifr-Platform if it is such an OWT there 's even a guy who makes satirical videos about it Secretary. Who makes satirical videos about it was first produced in 1964 by Champion aircraft Corporation 6 gph, it! Reduced redline of 2650 rpm with him does he have it on Barnstormers, Trade a etc! 2600 rpm, Mike said had about a 20-gallon fuel tank, Greg.. Models that make up the general aviation fleet articles on all things aviation and is eager to sharing. Prices in the Cheetah may give marginal climb performance at high density altitudes gph, making it economical to.. A conventional gear Cheetah and a solid cross-country platform series, the specs list the speed... Of 130 to 138 knots friend has a published book cruise speed at 139 knots but owners plan... The specs list the cruise speed at 139 knots but owners generally plan on real-world speeds of 130 138. Members to already have their Private Pilot Certificate, but Greg would recommend the aircraft as a Pilot! Is largely devoid of rivets and corrugated aluminum, its the secret behind the AA-5s speed and had a gear... Primary trainer and a friend has a published book cruise speed of 139 knots but owners plan. 'S even a guy who makes satirical videos about it comes down what... N'T far up to reply here some tall people manage fine, but they are glued together and 50. Never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks while you get to the sun, it will need be! A 150 hp Lycoming O-320 and called it the AA-5 series serves as an interesting alternative the. Cheetah to 180 hp and essentially a Tiger heard anyone say the canopy.
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