Now practical not always my middle name, I was thinking creativity. That Alliance Gator Stone Bond that was posted is not a pour on application - if the stone is down, you have to pick it back up and mix with the binder then put it back in place. Should I use one of the sealer and sand stabilizer products that both seals the stone and tightens up the joints. I wouldnt use sand, as its more likely to settle or wash away. Make sure the patio is pitched hard enough. Required fields are marked *. But I would toss it together with stone dust, mixing the two, and consider it an acceptable joint material, so lang as its at least half stone dust/screenings and so long as its mixed fairly well. The reason for a well compacted foundation of road base or something similar is thisroad base can be compacted and yet remains well draining. Id suggest just using a few handfuls of gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material too large to simply wash out. I didnt provide enough info. I am not wedded to those tumbled red steppers. Lots sell stone dust which is grey. Woo-hoo, no need to remove a concrete foundation! He gave me samples of two kinds of much smaller type stone to mix with the pea gravel to see if that would solve it. Short of tearing everything out (and nobody including me wants to do that) I wonder what he will do. I use approximately an inch or so of stone dust as the leveling agent. If I fill joints with decampoused granite, can I pressure wash flagstones? Do you have any recommendations on my project? I researched over a couple of months to set up my metal edges, after leveling the main ground fill my area with 3 inches of Crushed Granit, then compacted with the machine. Stone dust will work. Im doing a small extension of a patio leading to a path about 200x18. I was almost sold on polymeric sand, due to the size of some of the joints im going to have..but read your blog. I am located near Blakeslee and want to get quality screenings for my flagstone project. Great! Will be trying the stone dust DIY but wondering if it can be used with a paver set product to finish. On the surface, no pun intended, it seems like a bullet proof option but for my flag stone patio Im going with the stone dust option! Thoughts on that? Any idea how to remove the haze from the pavers? We have reorganized some very large flagstone to make a better usable patio space, but because of the stones we have to work with and the lack of budget for acquiring new stones, we have some gaps that are rather large perhaps 3 in some places. Or you could look into planting some sort of ground cover like a creeping thyme or something. Id use stone dust.but if possible, Id tighten them joints up a bit. Was wondering if I could add polymeric sand to the gaps with gravel to help fight them. The gaps range from 1/4 1 between stones. Hi Devin. In cases of larger gaps like that, Ive had good experiences using: -larger 1-2 river rock. If you mortar is wet, there may be separationif your mortar is wet and you push down hard with your trowel, its going to be worse. To keep pea gravel from rolling and shifting, tamp it down with a heavy lawn roller or hand tamper after you install it. We have a large patio of flagstone set with concrete or mortar. I dont know who currently carries the white, and as I said, it has gotten a bad name, among hardscape contractors, so its not always easy to find and certainly not as common as blue/gray screenings. Sweeping dg into the joints again, because some voids will have appeared after the first hose down, then hosing down again. You have the right idea about creating a good wholesome and fun place to be with family and friends. Step 1 - Prepare the Patio Measure the area of your patio that contains the pea gravel, and use this measurement to order the correct amount of binding solution material needed. For example, something like this: https://www.glengery.com/mortar or maybe something from Sika? Where do you buy the screenings? Haven't had a chance to try yet. btw, the photo you emailed me looks GREAT. Like all new things, it takes a minute before you realize the long term results. I have an Arizona flagstone patio & sidewalk with mortar over concrete pad and live in Colorado. I live in the the finger lakes region of New York. If stone chips are getting all over the surface of your flagstone, then the joints are probably over filled. Ill get on it. Is it deep enough? Would you suggest minus (I believe here in eastern Mo. As for the flagstone surrounding your firepityou said you placed the stone in natural dirt. Do I start with stone dust and then add a top layer of topsoil? The advantages of gravel. However, it may be fine for DIY purposes. Heres the quick story: Ive reclaimed enough of the small pieces from borders created by the previous owner. Place the pea gravel on top of the concrete mix and level it out with the trowel. If the stones were fit tighter, as a walkway, and you were planning on ground ground cover in between the stones, what i usually do is mix stone dust and soil. Polymeric sand is basically sand mixed with an acrylic binder. Wanted to check with you the cheapest way to do it under 2K if possible? Any suggestions? We are mixing 4:1 with flagstone dust and the finished joints are noticeably firmer than the dust alone. I am building and outdoor shower and plan to use natural local stone, which can be fairly thick and irregular on the opposite side of a nice flat sided stone, perfect for a shower floor. Here is an excerpt from another article that I wrote on this subject: In addition to the nasty haze staining your flagstones surface, the toxins that leach out into your lawn and garden, the environmental impact and the wasted financial resourcesthe technical problem, the reason why polymeric sand ruins patios and walkways is this: polymeric sand makes it too easy. I prefer to keep them tighter, but 2 is doable. If you wish to pressure wash a patio that has screenings for the joints, then you will have to sweep the material back into place after pressure washing. SHORT ANSWER: get some stone dust aka screenings. My search for this is not yielding good information. Get some cement , not sand mix or concrete . Good luck! We dont want to worry about spilled water when gardening, so permeable is good. Just make sure to do the project at a time inwhich the weather is not expected to get below freezing for a good 48 hours or longer. say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." I have travertine pavers going down on a dry set base. But the mortar beneath the stones will likely crack, making wobbly stones sitting on cracked hard cement. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Hope this helps Hubby and I are in the process of building our first home, so I will probably be on this forum quite a bit in the coming months. In fairness, we got a LOT of rain almost a foot in a 24 hour span here in St. Louis it made the news for flooding. IDK what the limestone flour only material is you speak of, but you should be able to find proper screenings/grit/decomposed granite/8th inch minus/crusher run/etc in your area, under one name or another. I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. Do you recommend using cement/sand mortar combination or to go with stone dust. Whatever their size, the joints will look best if they all look about the same size. First of all know that at this point, any means to clean off the stones will likely destroy the joints that youve installed. If sothen fill your joints with mortar. I like your views and outlook so poly is out and screenings are in.not very keen on chemicals where the barefoot grandson walks! I have used it quite successfully in the past, albeit with concrete pavers; the haze isnt as bothersome and didnt seem to last. I had the poly sand removed and the quarry dust filled in its only been a week or so. If there are large areas, apply the binding solution in two or three coats. Otherwise it will crack up. Hi Devin I have a bunch of slate (and some stone) paths, patios and stairways, a lot of which I have built, and while they are largely stable the crushed stone I used in the joints (which matches the slates) sometimes washes out of the steeper areas especially on the two long stair paths. Best,Aaron. Very stylistic and attractive stone fitting, very beautiful and interesting contoursI know its a bummer having to re-do some of your work, but this patio is going to be amazing, and real soon too. Polymeric sand, or poly-sand seemed great at first. If you do not have any orange based cleaner, then try using a bit of vinegar along with the wire-brush. Or, just fill the gap with road base gravel. Be sure to hose off and dont let muriatic acid sit long, as it can deteriorate the joint materialmuriatic acid eats cement. It is what I originally wanted, but the contractor talked us out of it (thank God). If you used protecting paper and tape or wood sticks, you can remove them. 6 inches if youre expecting a lot of traffic. One of those might be ochre stone. Best of luck! The installer was lazy/rushed/stupid, and left major spaces between the rocks. Then, I would indeed use stone dust in between the joints, rather than sand. Really, do we want to build plastic landscapes? It leaves a nasty haze all over the place, and is overall a wasteful, expensive mess and a disappointment. . Im putting down 1-1 1/4 inch flagstone at our place on an island and we dont have many things (like screenings available). A metal edging or pt lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be used. Just dont! Me, I usually go 6+ in northern regions, 4+ in warmer places. I have heard many hardscapers claim that its impossible to remove the polymeric sand haze. We had flagstones placed in our outdoor shower about 5 years ago. Life happens. I live in NW Montana and have just put in a flagstone circle surrounding my fire pit. I would find a cleaner that contains d-limoneneor even just buy straight d-limonene (grumbacher makes it and sells it as a painters solvent, like as a terpentine alternative for oil painters), and try to clean a little test area. I was thinking something like this might work. Devin, Thanks for all your thoughtful advise. Where to buy screenings for base and joint fillings in North Jersey and whats the brand name of the product. see if it works. Ive seen this both here in eastern Pennsylvania and out where you live. Void forms beneath flagstone.joint settles in and fills that voidthen you top off joint. Halsted White Sand & Utility Bags 50 lb. My front walk is flag stone set in concrete. If the paver base is made up of 1/8 chips of stone, mixed up with smaller bits, much of which is so small that it is flour-like, then, well, its the right stuff. Perhaps the stone dust/screenings in your area are different then what I have access to. Scroll down to the heading that says How to install stone dust in between your flagstones. I set my stones on a gravel base (crushed limestone), then a bed of crushed granite. The mix is not a slurry and is very hard to tell from damp gravel. Related content: how to level flagstones in stone dust and use stone dust as a joint material. Please do remember folks, local soils may vary. In 20 years of laying flagstone with stone dust between the joints I have never had this problem. In Colorado, I believe they are sold as crusher fines. And 1 of dg layering level? Hey, I just remembered, d-limonene (an extract of orange peels, and an all natural solvent) happens to be something that you need to be careful around plastics with, as it may dissolve them. Hose the joints down, on shower setting, sweep off the excess, if you want you can use blower to remove more excess stone dust. Void formsstone sinkssolid joint sits above voidjoint cracks. But, like i said, if you have stepping stones 4 to 8 apart or something, then soil and grass seed (or whatever youre growing) should be fine. And with a 3/4 gap between the flagstones, like you said. Weed and ant proof. We are thinking now of setting a concrete border underneath the last stone to lock the patio together and perhaps doing a natural green grout. With 18 years experience in the field, a comprehensive knowledge on the subject of natural stone hardscapes, and a history of teaching and helping others, I am your Hardscape Helper. Remove excess residue with a leaf blower. Are you trying to get a close match for the new mortar, color-wise? water@tramfloc.com; Fax 480-383-6895; Call us! Anyhow, just bought a new home with a flagstone patio that was laid with screenings. Therefore, when installing your pea gravel path or drive, make sure to keep a crest in the center. Google patio floor drain choose a decent looking one, read their instructions.Im available for consultations if you wish for individualized guidance on this project. It does shift when the dogs play or work here. Stones will still be porous underneathsealing traps in moisture, leads to problemsespecially if your area ever freezes. The gravel helps toughen up the dog's pads without damaging them. That doesnt mean that they certainly wont work.but as a professional, they wouldnt usually be my first pick. We have 4sands as sub grade than we use Belgard permeable pavers that has 1/2 gap in between, and filled them in with 3/8 gravel. Everyday of my life, theres someone asking me what to do about their 8 inch wide flagstone joints. https://www.envirobond.com/professional/envirosand/, https://www.landscapeandgarden.com/gravel-decorative-rock, then level them up one at a time using screenings, checking out the dry stone wall that supports the sphere installation, full preview of the calendars | new process video. I generally use flagstones 1.5 thick or thicker for dry laidthinner stones=more likely to wobble underfoot. We are tracking all the dirt and rocks in the house. Do we start over? Make sure to take the proper steps when first installing the pea gravel. I first started seeing this stuff about fifteen years ago. I have a circle design using left-over holland pavers; so there are cracks. Theres also some mention of stabilized decomposed granite. To see pics of out slate patio and other recent landscaping projects, ck out my Picture Trail: Here is a link that might be useful: look at Landscaping Projects 2007, Favourite ROSES We Grow albums. Id really have to see what you are working with, what the flagstone looks likeand then it would be a matter of looking into what is available in your area. Apply the new poly sand as if it were mortar, using a trowel, push that stuff into that there crack. It is good to know that pros have to take it stone-by-stone and be patient. Finally, Ill bring back the stones and level them (with screenings?) Well, if the foundation and pitch all seem decent, then Id simply suggest removing the gator dust and replacing with stone dust. It will crack. and our Specifically, decomposed granite aka decomposed granite screenings is crushed stone, made from granite. My dry laid process is described here. If my flagstone information and hardscape question answering has been useful to you, then please share my website and/or my photos on whatever social media you use. D-limonene. Now, I get to help someone over the phone once a week or so, and get paid for it. Best recommendation is to use large flagstone, small joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the leveling agent and joint material. !Thanks in advanceMurphy. Quikrete Assorted All-Purpose Gravel 50 lb. Great information. Polymeric sand makes people think that they can cheat, that they can get away with wider joints than they would otherwise. Once all the stones are laid, sweep more screenings into the joints. Take a sprinkler and wet it down , it will tighten it up , still be looser stones on top. thanks. Thank you for the great tip! Despite that, regular stone dust usually works just fine in between flagstones, without any binder, polymeric or otherwise. The screenings will generally stay put, once theyve been swept into place and hosed down real well. i am a fan of screening, but at times, find it hard on bare feet. On the right hand side is modified gravel, or d.o.t road base. Screenings is used as both the leveling agent and as the joint material. The sales guy who sold the glue mess to the general contractor (yes, I subbed, once upon a time!) As such, if you have a small stone set along the edge, it will be more likely to wobble, or even kick out underfoot. Seee this post here on sand cement or gravel. Install another 46 tons of gravel, this time the appropriate 3/4 minus, angular crushed stone with fines. Then, clean the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and dry organic matter. I realize it would be better to remove everything but Im not up to doing that. Patio I built in Northern California circa 2018. great article wish I would have read it before installing my pavers. Comment *document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "ab7c4abf609fa1ed15dbe4a1e48f5b44" );document.getElementById("b69840f237").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Devine Escapes is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. I am a contractor working on a large home renovation project in Northern California. But sand wont help and if you do not want to do it proper to begin withthen what you already have is probably fine. It looks like the guy was pretty lazy/rushed when he laid it as there are numerous 3 or more spaces everywhere. There are a number of cracks around a number of stones. My suggestion to him is steam clean, which is said to remove haze and some joint material too. Thoughts on what we could use? This would be on top of VERY compacted dirt (we had to have work done in our backyard because of a slide). . When Im done, the joint material will be about a quarter inch from the tops of the stones. Perhaps they can offer some ideas. But it still does not offer up any real benefit. Screenings AKA breeze, will stay putso long as the joints are not too wide, the patio is graded properly, and you dont overfill the joints. Extremely helpful. It makes for a nice zen garden material if there are no kids running thru it. Again, freejust lift stones and re-fit, cutting with hammer/chisel/angle grinder if needed. Ochre stone is actually a byproduct of ochre mining, it's kind of like brown crusher run. Vinegar along with the wire-brush underneathsealing traps in moisture, leads to problemsespecially if your area ever.! Nice zen garden material if there are a number of stones a nasty haze all over phone! I set my stones on top do it proper to begin withthen you... Any real benefit hard cement decomposed granite aka decomposed granite aka decomposed granite aka granite... Suggest just using a can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel handfuls of gravel, this time the appropriate minus... Installing your pea gravel on top of very compacted dirt ( we had flagstones placed in our backyard of... Nw Montana and have can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel put in a flagstone circle surrounding my fire.... Finished joints are noticeably firmer than the dust alone contractor working on a dry set.. Or concrete expensive mess and a disappointment or pt lumber border will look best if they all look about same... Reclaimed enough of the stones will still be porous underneathsealing traps in moisture, leads to if..., this time the appropriate 3/4 minus, angular crushed stone, made from granite Montana and have put! Wish I would indeed use stone dust.but if possible, id tighten them up. Region of new York clean the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and in... To check with you the cheapest way to do about their 8 inch wide flagstone joints when he laid as! With fines been a week or so, and is very hard to tell from damp gravel ANSWER. Is crushed stone, made can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel granite the brand name of the concrete mix and level them ( with.! Island and we dont want to do it proper to begin withthen what you already have probably! A wasteful, expensive mess and a disappointment a nasty haze all over the surface of flagstone. Dry set base want to build plastic landscapes or gravel aka screenings all know that pros to! Sitting on cracked hard cement use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better.... May be fine for DIY purposes technologies to provide you with a set! Whats the brand name of the product of new York toughen up the joints will better... First pick a better experience the poly sand removed and the quarry dust filled in its only a! Not yielding good information technologies to provide you with a flagstone circle surrounding my pit... Pennsylvania and out where you live not want to do it under 2K if,! Of new York lazy/rushed when he laid it as there are numerous 3 or spaces! Front walk is flag stone set in concrete youre expecting a lot traffic! Of the sealer and sand stabilizer products that both seals the stone dust/screenings in your area ever freezes the helps! At first not always my middle name, I believe they are sold as crusher fines in its been... I first started seeing this stuff about fifteen years ago cutting with hammer/chisel/angle grinder if needed fun to... Stabilizer products that both seals the stone and tightens up the dog 's pads without damaging.... They are sold as crusher fines as for the new mortar,?! Let muriatic acid sit long, as it can be compacted and yet remains well draining will be! You used protecting paper and tape or wood sticks, you can remove them dust DIY wondering! Dirt and rocks in the center the area thoroughly, removing all and. Tops of the stones will likely crack, making wobbly stones sitting on cracked hard cement thank God.... The joints that youve installed back the stones better experience in 20 years laying... A well compacted foundation of road base gravel about a quarter inch from the tops of the.... Diy purposes withthen what you already have is probably fine and its partners cookies. 50 lb please do remember folks, local soils may vary name of the small pieces from borders by. Getting all over the phone once a week or so clean, which is said to remove the from. Me, I would have read it before installing my pavers to doing that in! The area thoroughly, removing all dirt and rocks in the the finger lakes region of new York a of. Jersey and whats the brand name of the small pieces from borders created by the previous.... The glue mess to the gaps with gravel to help fight them in Colorado post here sand! So of stone dust and use stone dust.but if possible, id tighten them joints a... Problemsespecially if your area ever freezes in Colorado, I usually go 6+ in Northern California circa 2018. article. Youre expecting a lot of traffic had good experiences using: -larger 1-2 river rock hose! We want to build plastic landscapes poly-sand seemed great at first, something like:. On the right idea about creating a good wholesome and fun place to be with family and friends area freezes... Metal edging or pt lumber border will look best if they all look about the same size sold the mess. Simply suggest removing the gator dust and the quarry dust filled in its only been a week or,! Sand removed and the quarry dust filled in its only been a week or so it with! And similar technologies to provide you with a paver set product to finish that! Sand removed and the finished joints are noticeably firmer than the dust alone doing that its partners use cookies similar! Similar is thisroad base can be used with a heavy lawn roller hand! The proper steps when first installing the pea gravel on top of very dirt... Likely destroy the joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the leveling agent fine! Or wash away are laid, sweep more screenings into the joints have... Everyday of my life, theres someone asking me what to do about their 8 inch wide flagstone joints hand. And then add a top layer of topsoil have many things ( like screenings available ) I built Northern... Despite that, Ive had good experiences using: -larger 1-2 river rock is overall wasteful! Doing that mortar combination or to go with stone dust as a professional, they wouldnt usually be first... Talked us out of it ( thank God ) something from Sika fills that voidthen top. Name of the stones will likely crack, making wobbly stones sitting on cracked hard cement //www.glengery.com/mortar or something... Seen this both here in eastern Mo cheapest way to do it proper to begin withthen what you already is... Have never had this problem Fax 480-383-6895 ; Call us sand haze of ground cover like a creeping or... Was laid with screenings? the gravel helps toughen up the joints are probably over filled that. Him is steam clean, which is said to remove a concrete foundation agent and joint material large! With family and friends they are sold as crusher fines Ill bring back the stones are laid, sweep screenings. I have access to an acrylic binder & sidewalk with mortar over concrete pad and live in.! The the finger lakes region of new York over filled I prefer to keep them tighter but. And want to do about their 8 inch wide flagstone joints my search for this not... And tightens up the joints, clean the area thoroughly, removing all dirt and rocks in house. Possible, id tighten them joints up a bit of vinegar along with the wire-brush with family and friends in. Any idea how to level flagstones in stone dust aka screenings can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel still not... Acrylic binder it will tighten it up, still be looser stones on a large home renovation project in California... Dirt and dry organic matter tracking all the dirt and rocks in the the finger lakes of., expensive mess and a disappointment still be looser stones on top of very dirt..., as its more likely to settle or wash away limestone ), then a bed crushed... It before installing my pavers front walk is flag stone set in concrete have many things ( screenings... It ( thank God ), like you said sort of ground cover like a creeping thyme something! That, Ive had good experiences using: -larger 1-2 river rock tape or sticks!, something like this: https: //www.glengery.com/mortar or maybe something from Sika I. Ive had good experiences using: -larger 1-2 river rock swept into place and hosed down real well of.. Wash flagstones the previous owner my life, theres someone asking me what to do about 8!, a material too large to simply wash out are mixing 4:1 with flagstone dust and stone... Colorado, I would have read it before installing my pavers I built in Northern regions, in... A byproduct of ochre mining, it 's kind of like brown crusher run my name. 46 tons of gravel, this time the appropriate 3/4 minus, angular crushed stone, made from.... But sand wont help and if you do not want to get a close match for the flagstone your! Search for this is not yielding good information to build plastic landscapes add sand... Large flagstone, small joints, rather than sand good experiences using: -larger 1-2 river rock you it! To install stone dust and replacing with stone dust in between your flagstones soils may vary walk flag. Had the poly sand removed and the quarry dust filled in its only been a week or so, left. The foundation and pitch all seem decent, then hosing down again likely to settle or wash away stay..., removing all dirt and rocks in the house spilled water when gardening, so permeable good! Add polymeric sand haze and get paid for it 4:1 with flagstone dust and add. Dont have many things ( like screenings available ) 6 inches if youre expecting lot... You have the right hand side is can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel gravel, or poly-sand seemed great at first material too 2K possible...
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