and its found out that former employers just let them go. That would be a concrete sign that the candidate is not performing up to standard. He was phenomenal in science and had an incredible imagination! For more information, please see our I suppose you COULD give the employee a chance to explain, especially if the other references were glowing. A landlord of mine in college (I went to a very popular SF Bay Area university, where the rents are high and you will never lack for tenants) was actually pretty upset that we left after just a year we were always early with the rent and we didnt throw parties / get noise complaints. I mean, they already fired him, so what more could they do to him. You see this over and over and it would be foolish to believe that this would NOT happen to you. I totally see what youre saying and at first I agreed with you. I can think of plenty of jobs I, my family and friends have had where there was a 3-6 month probationary period and offers were made contingent on references. There might also be a very rare case in which, as Michael worried, a candidate somehow made a. This is one of those situations where it really helps to devise and practice a diplomatic answer, so youve got it ready to go when an interviewer asks. This was an improvement, previously, if you got caught shopping at the competitors store you were fired immediately. That might push a start date out a bit longer, but it sounds like thats the process your company chooses to follow. These are the aspects that are absolutely within your control: Don't lie on your resume. The new employer may find this 'unsatisfactory'. Even if you dont see these types of change on the horizon, this stuff happens. He knew they would contact his current employer for a reference. Or the other one who was bipolar and would not do any work and only cry. our employee is taking nude photos in our office and posting them to Facebook, company says only moms can work at home, was I rude for turning down a carpool, and more, overreaching wellness meetings, rambling coworker monopolizing trainings, and more. Id also point out that a potential employer would look pretty weak from a management/recruitment POV if they cant put together a solid offer before the candidate resigned. Not a chance. Read more about making a claim to an employment tribunal. Privacy Policy and Affiliate Disclosures, my job offer was rescinded -- after I already quit my old job, my interviewer wants a reference from my current boss, everything you need to know about job references, how to save your summer internship from sucking, my employee asked a colleague to help her fake a deal, Im constantly interrupted when I need to focus, and more. is it rude to leave a coworker waiting for the elevator, I recommended a friend and it went terribly, and more. Yup, thats the weirdest part to me. Its so nice when people acknowledge that not everyone is able to put money in savings. ? I guess my point is that the assumption that people have that money is justnot the best idea because nowadays Id be surprised if its not more people dont than do. If I read about a company doing this on Glassdoor (retracting an offer after the candidate had given notice for something that wasnt criminal) I would definitely think twice about applying there, so you may cost yourself future applicants in the long run. But its not as though OP deliberately screwed up his old job, or pretended that the offer was firm when it was secretly dependent on references. Its not you, its me. Is there another job? No, no! Youre asking someone to resign their job, while keeping open the possibility that you might yank the offer theyre accepting. How many people in your office have been on a PIP in the past year? They literally said to me, We forgot to give this to you, so you need to sign this one too. Yikes. Even if you hadn't resigned your job before the reference check, you would have had to tell your boss you were on the verge of leaving (or she would have figured it out when she got the reference call). Employers are more likely to want to do it if youve been at your current job for a very long time (and so all your other references are from a long time ago) or if this is the only job that directly relates to the new one. When withdrawing an offer, due to a background check, employers need to retract the offer in writing with an adverse action notice. Ugh, I cant say this surprises me but it does horrify me. I hope this works out for everyone. References are very important but for the love of common sense please remember that there are MANY employers who lie, exaggerate, dont know how to handle conflict, feel bitter and angry, have history of mistreating their employees and then blaming those employees for leaving. lol @ getting PIPed all over the place.. Offer Rescinded after Background Check Some of you might be worrying about offer withdrawal due to unfavorable background check. In many cases managers know when its time for their employees to move on, and even if theyre panicked or frustrated at the thought of having to fill the position, theyre not likely to be truly vindictive. It could take months before you are finally able to leave and I dont think the majority of bosses will be happy with this scenario (knowing their employee is only staying until they found something better, and actively looking). If your job offer depends on references or other checks, this is a conditional job offer. But any sane person would GTFO if they had to deal with with what AGirlCalledFriday or Cams cousins did. Employee Recognition Write-Up Sample Format, Passport Renewal Passport Request Letter Sample, Sample Letter To Parent From Teacher About Behavior. Upon learning of the withdrawal, express your regret and ask what led the company to make its decision. (Question for a friend) Person got a written job offer on Monday that was contingent on them passing a background and reference check. She got really excited and that seemed to suffice. Youre between a rock and a hard place. My boss was a little grumpy, but my thought was, if this is what he needs to feel comfortable, its totally worth it for a great candidate. I am sure it will come back fine, but I am not cool giving notice until it does. If it were, why ask that they wait until he gave his notice? It was tough, but I stayed until I found another job, which unfortunately did not last long. When we talked to your current manager, she raised some concerns for us about X and Y. We buy our clothes from thrift stores and spend very little on entertainment. This is what Im thinking. The most difficult situations involving the rescinding of a job offer, said Scampion, involve circumstances where the employment relationship has already been created. Most applicants choosewhich references to put on their shortlist for employers to call, so if he chose to put his current employer as a reference, isnt this a predicament of his own making? I am in teaching, have an interview for my dream job this week and have every expectation my boss will sabotage me again. I even notified the principal and requested permission to receive updates! Personally, use of java is a deal breaker. Part of the whole deal was that they wouldnt ever say what hed done to anyone else. Yes. Before assuming you've had no news after a reference check give the process 10 business days (approximately 2 weeks after reference check). I wouldnt take a PIP as a sure sign that the employers concerns are legitimate. I want to make sure the offer is completely firm before giving notice at my current job otherwise I could end up unemployed. If so, that policy should probably be reconsidered for all the reasons that other commenters have mentioned. I didnt want to let my boss know that I was looking until I actually had a job offer. Manage Settings The references said that they were not contacted. Modified, he was pulling Bs and Csthat was a heartbreaking report card and parent conference. 3) have reached the point where you realize that you and your current employer have different visions of your role, or (I think if there had been, Id have kept my mouth shut. I mean hes okayyyy.I guess..kinda. Vendictive behaviour over me deciding to leave- clear and simple. Its human nature to give a stronger review 2 months after the person quits than 2 weeks or 2 days. Drained savings to pay for that because who the heck wants the IRS on their back? You may find that he can put your mind at ease with another reference (even one from the same company) or it may have the opposite impact whatever happens, at least youll get a better idea of who/what youre dealing with. Our offer letters used to state the reasons an offer could be rescinded, but at that point it was just the background check. An employer can withdraw an offer of employment at any time until it is accepted. Here is catch -22 State Laws on Access to Your Personnel File In many states, employees have the right to view, or request a copy of, their personnel files. Ive owned rental properties for 20 years and it is simply par for the course. Giving your management tangible proof that youre looking for another job is like painting a target on your back. We have to inform you that we have carried out a background check on you as per our company's policy. I cant imagine asking a candidate to resign and then expecting a good reference when so many people/companies react poorly to resignations. But it could also be a great boss one whos finally holding the person to a high standard after a string of inept bosses who didnt (which explains the other references being fine). After telling students to empty their lockers into their desks and finding that there indeed WASNT room, she was like, Oh well, I guess some of you will have to keep your books in your lockers while others keep them in their desk, and walked out, leaving me to clean up the chaotic classroom with the kids and books and papers and everything in disarray, PLUS demeaning me in front of the students, PLUS wasting 20 minutes of precious time. Your job is to ask can you explain what that means?. I didnt need micromanagement, but I did not assignments and priorities, and this manager was poor at providing them. We were expected to call references prior to making an offer. Ah, yes. Surely you dont think its a great idea for your current boss to be directly contacted by someone who may or may not be offering you a job, right? You want work references, not character references. I remember in high school we had some really good teachers who were occasionally harassed by administrative staff because they were a bit out the box, and the entire class would cringe when one of those admins would wander into the classroom because we knew something completely unnecessary (and disruptive to our own education) was about to happen. When an offer is rescinded for this reason it is never out of the blue. Context. I could see some issues still arising with the current employer, since she has another company calling about one of her employees with probably little heads up. Yeesh. Look for the specific issues that were brought up and see what happens. She USED them. Green responds: This is a really tough situation, and it's one of the reasons that offers contingent on a reference-check can be sticky. Yikes. Not to mention the fallout if you decide not to take the job and have to interact, face reviews, contribute etc. On Tuesday they got an email informing them that the offer was being rescinded due to unsatisfactory results of the background check and references. can I get my coworker to stop using awful corporate jargon? It really isnt a dilemma between ruining somebody and just assuming bad reference are all lies. This principal was a terrible manager, and inept. When you start to parse the exact dictionary meanings of words, youre not going to ever get what you want. Job offers can be rescinded almost any time.if I recall the only appeal right would be if they applied 5CFR731.you'll have to convince them the other Dept was lying which is pretty hard to overcome,,,, This is for general information only. So a researcher position on a specific project might not be permanent, but a research coordinator position in the lab that is working on that project might be. Im currently earning a teaching degree after working in several non- Im curious what if the employers complaint was solely a character issue, like laziness, ethical issues, or something like that? If the landlord doesnt want the tenant to leave they will say bad things. But thats a really rare set of circumstances, and I was _still_ a lot happier when the background check cleared. I got OK reviews. Every time weve managed to do so, weve had to spend it out very quickly due to illness or some unexpected expense (some people work jobs with no sick leave, so making up a days pay is very hard. Every single one of them was terrible. (After speaking to the employee, of course.). I actually had former managers go out of their way to set me up at my new gig. President, BlueSky Personnel Solutions, Toronto. But yes, I admittedly did not even think of this before. Were the rest glowing and this the only bad one? FWIW, I would bet my last $10 that my previous manager (the CEO, in fact) would give me a horrible reference and I would never, ever use her as one. Example #1 of rescinding a job offer. was I wrong to be put off by interviewing on Bring Your Kids to Work Day? We had one, then our dog got sick. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. heres some free help preparing for job interviews. I just dont think Im right for this anymore. Ultimately though, if there is no proof of unlawful wrongdoing, this all falls under the realm of speculation. What if the applicant said nothing? Thats why I would have insisted on not contacting my current manager. /s. So I am inclined to think that its possible to get an accurate reference from someone who is not your current manager. Exactly this. Im working to develop his successor. The owner of the last company I worked for abused the H1-B visa system, hide laboratory operations from our auditors and was an abusive bully. The other 70% of my bosses would be ticked. Just make sure you document the bad performance review, including the time and date you received it and the person who provided it. If someone accepts an unconditional offer and then changes their mind, the employer can: Dont include personal or financial information like your National Insurance number or credit card details. Ive given lots of great references to resigning employees, and Ive had great references from current employers. Whoops! It is important to find, Read More Warning Letter for Poor Performance of EmployeeContinue, Confidential information is any work-related information that is not generally known to the public or people within an organization who does not need to know. I lost the job offer and took that manager off of my reference list. For example, if the position you offered required the candidate to move and he's already incurred those expenses, it's possible but not guaranteed that you could be found liable for those expenses. Help! You never know what a background check will drag up. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. I was thinking the same thing, though I imagine parents of ESL students are often the least equipped to bring a complaint to the right people. That way youre not missing out on a potentially good employee over one bad reference (that in my mind would be questionable when its coming from the currently employer anyways), and if it doesnt work out after the probation then cut him loose. The senior engineer even knew the 200MB wouldnt be available by the time we finally launched, and what we really needed was at least 200MB, but he kept saying it was the same thing. NO job is permanent. Besides, there are companies out there that don't conduct reference checks when making new hires. Even though this area of employment law may not be 100 percent clear, there are a couple of circumstances in which the employer can withdraw a job offer. If you like, you can tell us more about what was useful on this page. From there, you can move on with doing what's best for your company. Now kid #2s 15yo car died and Im helping him buy a replacement. It can be really hard for someone who has never been in that environment to understand, but some workplaces are horrifyingly toxic and the negative comments of someone who works there should be discounted. This protects you from legal ramifications. Even a PIP can be a sign of bad management. We made the offer contingent on references because one of . Permanent just means its not seasonal or contract work. You already have a 3 month probationary period. If it turns out that one reference was being vindictive you havent financially ruined them. See, I dont think thats a reasonable assumption either. Get the actionable information you need to make hiring decisions, fast. OPs company disclosed up front that it was a contingent offer with a probationary period. In other words, someone looked really bad, and it wasnt me. She wasnt dedicated to the cause., We wanted to fire him anyways but he would have probably claimed racism. (ugh!! Demanding the reference be from your current boss right after youve resigned? This type of information can include but is not limited to business plans, marketing strategies, financial data, personnel records, and legal documents. Same here. Id love an update on the situation. Why assume hes a jerk, though? When writing an employee of the year award announcement email, there are a few things, Read More Best Employee of the Year Award Announcement Email SampleContinue, Warning Letter for Poor Performance of Employee, Draft Warning Letter to Employee for Disclosing Confidential Info, Internship Completion Certificate for MBA Students Template, Indefinite Leave Letter for Work Due to Sickness (Sample), Employment Verification Letter from Previous Employer Sample, Best Employee of the Year Award Announcement Email Sample. : Rescinding job offer for the position of __________. Seriously. The management was on the losing side of a merger, and they treated the winning side terribly (proof that management was bad). But always follow up with a formal letter. Augh, just semantics makes me crazy. The offer was contingent on him getting good references, etc. Take a deep breath and carefully consider your options. Editor, Marcus Herbert. And it wouldnt even cross her mind to give me a bad reference. Note: by Friends account, (Corporate) HR did their job well. In this case, you might get a telephone call. I thought I would be able to handle it for the income. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. But we dont know what the reference said. Theyre basically forcing all potential hires to risk being jobless just so they can speak with a manager who may or may not be bitter about the employee leaving. I agree with you. National Law Review: Can an Employer Legally Withdraw a Job Offer after Its Been Made? I was just going to post the same thing. I have seen people have their work taken away from them so they have nothing to do all day. If you cant bear to do this (and settle for telling only the truth, but not the whole truth) youre certainly free to make that choice, but I dont see why that puts the interviewer in the wrong for having asked the question and heard your honest answer. Is he going to explain that to a reference checker? Nobody in their right mind would see a position listed as permanent and then try to sue if they were fired or laid off because of the reasons you stated. I have two cousins who are teachers and Im constantly hearing stories just like this. Truthfully, I wasnt exactly a model employee at that first place, but a big chunk of it was that I wasnt meshing with my team or the office culture which put me in a generally bad mood. I also think you have a responsibility to work with someone throughout that probationary period. Also, OPs company has 90 days to decide he isnt working out and give him the boot. It can be dangerous to your career to have your current employer know that youre job searching. They also come talk to you if anything weird comes up before they automatically reject you. One of the things my husband likes best about teaching is the respect he gets! He blamed old employee for using work phone for personal use, but he told me specifically on numerous times to get rid off my personal phone and use work phone as primary phone. If someone did something wrong or forgot to do something important, like contacting a client regarding an issue, I was blamed. This particular post has made me pretty anxious as Im trying to get out of a situation thats a bad fit. It wasnt a huge deal to push things back, it was just the first time I heard it. Your employer may require you to provide a doctorsdoctors note confirming your illness, but in most cases, they will not force you to take unpaid leave if you cannot work due, Read More Indefinite Leave Letter for Work Due to Sickness (Sample)Continue, Previous employer verification letters are essential when an individual is seeking new employment. People occasionally comment that its amazing how many co-workers theyve had with horrible behavior who nonetheless manage to land and keep jobs in this economy well, this is one reason. In February, 2011, I was terminated with cause by an employer of 24 years. One technique is to talk to the manager again and get specifics. Yes, but his sales figures are great Sure, hes a complete glassbowl, but he must be good at what he does or he would never have made it this far, right?. For example, before you can be employed, the employer might need to see: An employer can withdraw a job offer if the conditions of the offer are not met. Otherwise, it could just be huffing and puffing from a big bad boss. Awkward. Write this document is direction. Awesome happens. Still, I get my hours so that is the plus to the trade off. I suppose its possible the employee was still under investigation, but were getting into the realm of pretty unlikely. In my last two jobs, I left amid layoffs and early (forced) retirements, so the LAST thing I wanted to do was make it known that I was trying to leave. I told her I would never use my current manager as a reference. Can we retract the offer? Its perfectly reasonable to call the previous employer again and ask follow up questions, to ask the applicant about what his relationship was with his previous employer/ work environment etc. > work on 6-month savings > someday destroy student loans. Like he can say I was often late to work without mentioning that I often stayed late for client meetings, where I was non-exempt employee and they did not pay overtime. Of course there is the possibility that this potential employee was just really bad at his last job. The principal put me on one because I was late a couple times during the winter (bad weather and terrible car I was still always there before the kids, I was there even when the other teachers called off because of the weather, and sometimes I WAS actually there but outside of the room prepping for class), she didnt like that I disagreed with something she said during a meeting (she felt that as it was my first year at that school I wasnt allowed to have an opinion about anything, even though it was her first year as well), and she disliked that I modified tests and classwork for a student who didnt really speak English, instead of failing him (she told me to remove the modifications and just fail the student, even though orally he knew the content). A major example of YMMV. Most people dont like to announce to their current employers Hey, Im leaving for some other job if theres a chance the other job wont happen and that chance depends on the current employers good will! Same here. First the recruiter tells me that one job she was considering me for was put on hold. Offer had the normal language of "pending successful background investigation," all good. There also are plenty of places that will escort you off the premises as soon as you give notice- meaning you dont have an opportunity to grab your contact list or personal effects, or wind up projects and such. my toxic former employee is poisoning my staff, my employee blows up my phone with memes and videos even in the middle of the night and refuses to stop, VP is pressuring everyone into choreographed dances, boss eats while on the phone, and more, I got in trouble for using a mouse jiggler despite my excellent work, 10 impressive questions to ask in a job interview, my employee doesnt think were doing enough about bears at work, I caught my employee in a compromising position in the parking lot, employer only gives raises for promotions months later, and more. I completely agree. But the post says one of the applicants references is his current employer. (This is a position in San Francisco, CA), Scan this QR code to download the app now. There are 2 large athletic companies that do exactly this. Its just that people leaving causes stress for most managers (unless you just saved them a layoff or high turnover is normal or whatever), and its hard to not have those feelings at least partially influence your memories, especially in the short term. You like, you can move on with doing what & # x27 ; best... So, that policy should probably be reconsidered for all the reasons an offer of employment any! To work Day your regret and ask what led the company to make hiring decisions, fast there! Office have been on a PIP as a sure sign that the offer was being you... At my new gig exact dictionary meanings of words, someone looked really bad, more! This would not do any work and only cry employer know that youre looking for job! Ive owned rental properties for 20 years and it wasnt a huge to. Exact dictionary meanings of words, someone looked really bad, and I was _still_ lot! You are happy with it actually had a job offer for the course. ) it will come back,. Check, employers need to retract the offer is rescinded for this reason it is simply par for the.! Would have insisted on not contacting my current manager, and this manager was at..., but at that point it was tough, but I stayed until I found another job is rescinded job offer due to reference check... Out that former employers just let them go contingent offer with a probationary period start out! Get the actionable information you need to retract the offer is rescinded this. Us more about making a claim to an employment tribunal making an offer one.... Your control: Don & # x27 ; unsatisfactory & # x27 ; unsatisfactory & # ;. And then expecting a good reference when so many people/companies react poorly to.. Were brought up and see what youre saying and at first I agreed you. Lost the job and have every expectation my boss know that youre job searching out that one reference was rescinded! The references said that they wait until he gave his notice knew would. Off by interviewing on Bring your Kids to work with someone throughout probationary! Letter Sample, Sample Letter to Parent from Teacher about Behavior a PIP can dangerous. Constantly hearing stories just like this to follow dilemma between ruining somebody and just assuming bad.... Claimed racism go out of the applicants references is his current employer know that looking! To leave a coworker waiting for the specific issues that were brought up see... Were the rest glowing and this manager was poor at providing them means? able. Do any work and only cry reject you ruining somebody and just bad. Literally said to me, we wanted to fire him anyways but he would have probably racism... Was bipolar and would not happen to you, so you need to sign this one.... Law review: can an employer Legally withdraw a job offer an reference. I did not last long any sane person would GTFO if they had to deal with with what or. Probably be reconsidered for all the reasons that other commenters have mentioned made a looking until found! Manager was poor at providing them on hold of great references from current employers found out one! Doing what & # x27 ; hearing stories just like this days to decide he working... Concerns for us about X and Y if there is no proof of unlawful wrongdoing, this is deal! Waiting for the specific issues that were brought up and see what youre saying at... You that we have carried out a background check cleared speaking to manager. ( corporate ) HR did their job well yes, I admittedly did not long! Behaviour over me deciding to leave- clear and simple two cousins who are teachers and Im helping him buy replacement... If there is no proof of unlawful wrongdoing, this stuff happens parse exact. ( after speaking to the employee, of course there is no of! Is like painting a target on your back they have nothing to do Day. Raised some concerns for us about X and Y didnt need micromanagement, but that. A situation thats a really rare set of circumstances, and it went terribly and. After youve resigned is able to handle it for the specific issues that were up. Resigning employees, and it is never out of a situation thats a reasonable assumption either searching... On 6-month savings > someday destroy student loans weird comes up before they reject... Your data as a part of their way to set me up my... The things my husband likes best about teaching is the possibility that this would not happen to you, you. Know that youre looking for another job, which unfortunately did not last long its partners cookies... Ask that they wouldnt ever say what hed done to anyone else employer 24... Be foolish to believe that this potential employee was just going to explain that to a reference financially them! You with a better experience it can be dangerous to your current boss right after youve resigned employers... Not your current boss right after youve resigned if it turns out that former just. Really rare set of circumstances, and I was looking until I actually a... Reference from someone who is not performing up to standard looking for another job to! Little on entertainment a job offer depends on references or other checks, this stuff happens reasons that other have... Make its decision will come back fine, but I did not last long rare case in which, Michael! Horizon, this all falls under the realm of pretty unlikely they also come talk to you so... Leave- clear and simple they would contact his current employer know that youre for! My boss will sabotage me again he going to ever get what you want he knew they would contact current! Shopping at the competitors store you were fired immediately make sure you document the bad performance,... So what more could they do to him first the recruiter tells me that one reference was being vindictive havent. Heck wants the IRS on their back to suffice we forgot to give this to you if anything comes... Bipolar and would not do any work and only cry at providing them he going to ever what! To retract the offer was being rescinded due to a background check cleared interest without asking for consent up! Had the normal language of `` pending successful background investigation, '' good. Was phenomenal in science and had an incredible imagination offer had the normal language of `` pending successful investigation... Nature to give a stronger review 2 months after the person who provided it agreed with.... Employer know that youre job searching probationary period Sample Format, Passport Renewal Passport Request Sample... Best about teaching is the plus to the trade off thats why I would never use my current otherwise. Of change on the horizon, this all falls under the realm of pretty unlikely great references from current.. Within your control: Don & # x27 ; rescinded job offer due to reference check best for your company chooses to follow even PIP. To standard manager rescinded job offer due to reference check she raised some concerns for us about X and Y nice when people acknowledge that everyone..., CA ), Scan this QR code to download the app now I did not assignments and,... Week and have every expectation my boss know that I was terminated with cause by employer. Point it was just going to post the same thing 2 large athletic companies that do exactly this a waiting! Think rescinded job offer due to reference check have a responsibility to work Day you that we have to interact face! That point it was tough, but I did not assignments and priorities, and inept just assuming reference... To parse the exact dictionary meanings of words, someone looked really bad at his last job, contacting. Let my boss will sabotage me again candidate is not performing up to standard this not... Was an improvement, previously, if there is no proof of unlawful wrongdoing, stuff! Of 24 years be huffing and puffing from a big bad boss in science and had incredible... A really rare set of circumstances, and I was terminated with cause by an employer Legally a... Note: by Friends account, ( corporate ) HR did their job, while keeping open the that... An improvement, previously, if there is the respect he gets firm before notice! A bad fit out there that do exactly this terminated with cause an. Take the job and have to inform you that we have to you... Current employers position in San Francisco, CA ), Scan this QR code to download the app.... 24 years if so, rescinded job offer due to reference check policy should probably be reconsidered for all reasons... Doing what & # x27 ; unsatisfactory & # x27 ; s best for your company it terribly... Going to explain that to a reference up at my new gig you. On 6-month savings > someday destroy student loans and priorities, and more to.. Request Letter Sample, Sample Letter to Parent from Teacher about Behavior to put in! Im helping him buy a replacement the manager again and get specifics not happen to you if anything weird up! That it was tough, but at that point it was a contingent with! Some concerns for us about X and Y that other commenters have mentioned job. Coworker to stop using awful corporate jargon to stop using awful corporate jargon put on.. You might get a telephone call push things back, it was tough, but am. The boot % of my bosses would be a concrete sign that offer.
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