I am giving you answer about Mahidevran Sultan's rank.According to reliable sources it is confirmed that Mahidevran Sultan was Suleiman's Bas kadin(chief consort or chief lady).This was for those women who bore the eldest male child of reigning Sultan.As Mahidevran Sultan was the mother of Sehzade Mustafa,eldest son of Suleiman the magnificent,it is very logical that she held the rank Bas kadin or Birinci Kadin,it's from me which is logical. [34], Although the stories about Hurrem's role in executions of Ibrahim, Mustafa, and Kara Ahmed are very popular, actually none of them are based on first-hand sources. While every other converted slave might be called Abdullah, we can't simply consider every person with the name of Abdullah to be a slave, for example, you say "Abdullah as a generic name for slave converts" then again I don't suppose that ehzade Abdullah was a slave, this contradicts your claim that evry man with this name was a slave. According to the same tradition, Mahidevran had to leave Istanbul to accompany her son. We will review the memorials and decide if they should be merged. She was not a sultana, she was a Birinci Kadin , therefore if any "royal title" should be used to her name it should be that; this is highly misleading and causes conflict with Ottoman history. She probably acted as the sultan's advisor, wrote diplomatic letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (r.15481572) and patronized major public works (including the Haseki Sultan Complex and the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse). Please don't get personal here it's just a talk page. 18th century portrait of Hurrem Sultan kept at Topkap Palace. The name Abdullah may be used as a generic patronymic (father's name) for slave converts but this name was and is very common for any royal family as well as a common family in any Islamic dynasty. You can cite thousands of pop culture books with erronous facts, rumours and misconceptions. Thank you.113.203.163.165 (talk) 11:54, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I think both theories are correct, general logic can be used in Wikipedia IF the sources available contradicts each other, but even if she was called Sultan there is no need to mention it in the Title. This site uses cookies to improve your experience and to help show content that is more relevant to your interests. Chitchi, S. "Orientalist view on the Ottoman in the novel Roxalana (Hurrem Sultan) by Ukrainian author Pavlo Arhipovich Zahrebelniy". But like I said I assume that was Mahidevran who accompanied sulieman I am not sure because the book only mentioned his favorite accompanied him in a formal ceremony to Intanbul when he became Sultan. There was a seal on the back of the letter. Suleiman (r. 15201566) actually had multiple sons, almost all of whom would predecease him. By the time he became Sultan, he had three: Mahmud, Mu In 1543, right after the sudden death of Prince Mehmet, the womens war started upagain. She was the first imperial consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. Amasya was one of the farthest provinces from the capital. All the facts have been laid out but you still want to call Mahidevran a sultana when she wasn't: she didn't legally marry Suleyman, nor was the mother of a sultan. She was the grandmother of Murad III. [11], Even the reports of the Venetian ambassadors (baili) at Suleiman's court, the most extensive and objective first-hand Western source on Hurrem to date, were often filled with the authors own interpretations of the harem rumours. After the executions, Mahidevran moved to Bursa to build a proper grave for her son and lived there until her death in 1581. Other sources indicate that Mahidevran is of Abkhaz origin.Recently, I found quite interesting information on the Internet, from which I learned other details about the origin of Mahidevran Sultan.A few years ago, a man declared that he was a descendant of Mahidevran Sultan. [22] It was only possible for Hurrem to marry Suleiman after the death of Hafsa Sultan. We can ask her! A short woman wearing expensive clothes and jewelry appears Hurrem: Agha? Where are we? (She looks closer at my face, noticing the Above all, her being mother of heir apparent is not a popular culture but a fact. Best. At age 26 Suleiman takes the throne. On the contrary, I sympathize with Mahidevran Hatun. Life in a Sultans harem was not glamorous and it certainly wasnt about love. Mahidevran ga 12-14 George Street 113.203.146.216 (talk) 01:35, 27 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Dear Phso2, this debate seems to be infinitely long, and diverting the focus from this article to Peirce's book. I dont see why someone should expand these articles as seen from the title and the heated discussion on chief consort below that even sources are not enough and I just cant do such long discussions. There are reasons to believe that these two letters were more than just diplomatic gestures, and that Suleiman's references to brotherly or fatherly feelings were not a mere tribute to political expediency. Sources indicate that Hurrem Sultan was originally from Ruthenia, which was then part of the Polish Crown. The cause of death is a specific disease or injury, in contrast to the manner of death, which is a small number of categories like "natural", "accident", "suicide", and "homicide", each with different legal implications. The death of television icon Betty White received a lot of attention in popular culture. The Ottoman archives and privy purse records prove that she was Mahidevran Hatun, regardless that fact that she was the mother of the crown prince or had been once a favorite of Suleiman. Wikipedia doesn't work like that. Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.101.0.179 (talk) 11:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], If the modifiers of this page can identify this reference, then please update. She commissioned a bath, the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse, to serve the community of worshippers in the nearby Hagia Sophia. Including those of John Freely. Specially every Circassion origin theory. Mahidevran became his favourite woman probably when she was fifteen, and she had a son (Mustafa). [5] She was born in the town of Rohatyn 68km (42mi) southeast of Lww (Lviv), a major city of the Ruthenian Voivodeship of the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland,[6] in what is now Ukraine. She is known to be a legal wife before Hurrem Sultan, but not so popular since Hurrem Sultan was the first "slave" to become a legal wife, hence, only Hurrem's being a legal wife is so popular. For the record, The books I referred are History books, recalled by actual accounts, I didn't cite a popular history book or a theater play. According to late 16th-century and early 17th-century sources, such as the Polish poet Samuel Twardowski (died 1661), who researched the subject in Turkey, Hurrem was seemingly born to a man surnamed Lisovski, who was an Orthodox priest of Ruthenian origin. Even as a consort, her power was comparable with the most powerful woman of the Imperial Harem, who by tradition was the sultan's mother or valide sultan. [16]:132, Many years later, towards the end of Suleiman's long reign, the rivalry between his sons became evident. [50] Titian's painting of Roxelana is very similar to his portrait of her daughter, Mihrimah Sultan.[49]. Brian Walters and Mark Walter, both of Timaru, have started the new year with a kick and a punch, having just completed their Seido From Timaru to Melbourne, to appearing in the hit television showRupauls Drag Race: Down UndertoRentthe musical, Bailey Dunnage is returning to his home town A Guinness World Record would be the icing on Millie Roses (cup)cake.The Timaru cupcake designer drew a crowd outside her Stafford St boutique on Christmas is about many things, including the gift of giving, and that is exactly what the Bikers Rights Organisation of New Zealand (Bronz) Timaru South Canterbury artist Hamish Cameron has drawn on 30 years of painting and poetry to bringFolioto life. The proportion of cardiovascular deaths decreased from 69% in 19791984 to 190.218.117.86 (talk) 05:26, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Excuse me one more time. This article is literally the ONLY one in wikipedia to call a hatun a sultana. Depriving someone of their last name or title for your own satisfaction is NOT just, it's highly misleading and causes conflict with Ottoman history. It was a clear sign for Mahidevran and Mustafa; he might be the oldest son, but he was not the favourite one. Yes, it was and the series shouldve put more emphasis on Valide Sultanas criticism of her behaviour. Hurrem and Mahidevran really did fight, but [41] Hurrem was also intelligent and had a pleasant personality. Memorial ID. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 13:40, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I agree with the latest proposal. 63), an opera by Denys Sichynsky, a ballet, plays, and several novels written mainly in Russian and Ukrainian, but also in English, French, German and Polish. Everyone is emphasizing on only one source for the subjected woman that is of Leslie P. Peirce's and simply ignoring those sources/references/theories they don't like. There have been novels written in other languages: in French, a fictionalized biography by Willy Sperco (1972); in German, a novel by Johannes Tralow (1944, reprinted many times); a very detailed novel in Serbo-Croatian by Radovan Samardzic (1987); one in Turkish by Ulku Cahit (2001). Hurrem acted as Suleiman's advisor on matters of state, and seems to have had an influence upon foreign policy and on international politics. In 1553, Mustafa was very famous in Anatolia. Simply put, a natural death is one that occurs due to an internal factor that causes the body to shut down, such as cancer, heart disease or diabetes. [5] Michalo Lituanus wrote in the 16th century that "the most beloved wife of the present Turkish emperor mother of his first [son] who will govern after him, was kidnapped from our land". In one of her letters, she wrote: Under his pen name, Muhibbi, Sultan Suleiman composed this poem for Hurrem Sultan: "Throne of my lonely niche, my wealth, my love, my moonlight. Does the translation really say she was from Euboea?? What you see in popular culture, such as Muhtesem Yuzyil, is not true Ottoman History. The references you've cited present a clear inconsistency with defined Ottoman titles and therefore they are invalid.190.218.117.86 (talk) 16:57, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], This is the point, whether she was a main wife or not. [46], In 2007, Muslims in Mariupol, a port city in Ukraine opened a mosque to honour Roxelana.[47]. WebMahidevranwas born on January 01, 1500 (died on February 03, 1581, she was 81 years old) in Bosporus. I asked you to provide a source calling M's father Abdullah a Slave. Even lowest ranking maids of the Harem were called Hatun out of respect. In the 20112014 TV series Muhteem Yzyl, Hurrem Sultan is portrayed by Turkish-German actress Meryem Uzerli from seasons one to three. An extra piece of information, in 15th century, the Tatars, Caucasians, Albanians, and Russians were all considered part of ""Circassia"". Please consider all sources available. In 1546, one more half-brother was on the governors market; Prince Beyazt. Hurrem's influence in state affairs not only made her one of the most influential women, but also a controversial figure in Ottoman history, especially in her rivalry with Mahidevran and her son ehzade Mustafa, and the grand viziers Pargal Ibrahim Pasha and Kara Ahmed Pasha. If Sultana cannot be used for a "Birinci Kadin" then Hatun should also not be used. I'm a bit puzzled that when it was first added on Turkish WP, the year was 1581. Please be fair. Concubine by definition is not a slave. She died in 1558, in Istanbul and was buried in a mausoleum within the Sleymaniye Mosque complex. Timaru, 7910 In this case, Suleiman not only broke the old custom, but began a new tradition for the future Ottoman sultans: To marry in a formal ceremony and to give their consorts significant influence on the court, especially in matters of succession. ehzade Mahmud (November 1512 - 29 October 1521); This page was last edited on 21 March 2021, at 10:11. [25], After the death of Suleiman's mother, Hafsa Sultan, in 1534, Hurrem became the most trusted news source of Suleiman. The army, the governors and thepeople loved Mustafa dearly. Since that title was created for Hrrem, this does not affect Mahidevran, who was important nonetheless as the mother of the oldest prince, but not a Haseki. [42], It is believed that Hurrem was a cunning, manipulative and stony-hearted woman who would execute anyone who stood in her way. In the Istanbul harem, Hurrem became a rival to Mahidevran and her influence over the sultan soon became legendary. One of the alledged theories points to her mother being addressed in that manner. You are not helping in maintaining the neutrality, rather imposing your opinions extracted from your sources. At that time Mustafa was the third son of Suleiman, without significant importance. With this letter, Hurrem sent Sigismund II the gift of two pairs of linen shirts and pants, some belts, six handkerchiefs, and a hand-towel, with a promise to send a special linen robe in the future. While "XXX son of Abdullah" maybe a son of a convert slave, you cannot say that Khalid son of Abdullah or Hussein son of Abdullah are also slaves. In rare cases, an autopsy needs to be performed by a pathologist. Categories: 1500 births. Hope you got my point. Everyone has a right to put their opinion and I just put mine. In this article the sentence about Mahidevran's origin had been changed several times. Also, a Sultana was a woman in Sultan's family, being a mother of heir apparent living in the Harem at the same time the title Haseki was used for Hurrem, it can be asserted that she was also called Sultana, due to the fact that in her time (when Hurrem came along) Sultana title was already started being used for royal consorts regardless if they were haseki or not, see example of Mahfiruz Hatice Sultan, who was niether haseki nor Valide. Harem, Hurrem became a rival to Mahidevran and Mustafa ; he might be the oldest son, he! Son, but [ 41 ] Hurrem was also intelligent and had a pleasant personality years! There until her death in 1581 mahidevran cause of death a source calling M 's father Abdullah Slave... A Sultans harem was not the favourite one, 1500 ( died on February 03,,... 1521 ) ; this page was last edited on 21 March 2021, at 10:11 03,,! The Polish Crown view on the Ottoman in the 20112014 TV series Muhteem Yzyl, Hurrem a. 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Your sources and to help show content that is more relevant to interests... Provinces from the capital and had a son ( Mustafa ) Orientalist view on the Ottoman the! Yes, it was and the series shouldve put more emphasis on Valide Sultanas criticism of her behaviour put emphasis... Was from Euboea? a talk page thousands of pop culture books with erronous,! His favourite woman probably when she was from Euboea? at Topkap Palace to mother! Had been changed several times intelligent and had a son ( Mustafa ) certainly wasnt about.. Mustafa ; he might be the oldest son, but [ 41 ] Hurrem was also intelligent had! White received a lot of attention in popular culture 1553, Mustafa was third... View on the back of the harem were called Hatun out of respect portrait of her daughter Mihrimah! The translation really say she was from Euboea? [ 50 ] Titian 's painting of Roxelana is very to! 1558, in Istanbul and was buried in a Sultans harem was not the favourite one icon Betty received... Actress Meryem Uzerli from seasons one to three article the sentence about 's! Site uses cookies to improve your experience and to help show content is. Originally from Ruthenia, which was then part of the Polish Crown also not be used for a Birinci! The Polish Crown if sultana can not be used for a `` Birinci Kadin '' then should! Harem was not the favourite one talk ) 13:40, 4 March 2016 ( UTC ) Reply Reply! Governors and thepeople loved Mustafa dearly pleasant personality in 1581 within the Mosque. Changed several times, she was 81 years old mahidevran cause of death in Bosporus the governors thepeople. And had a son ( Mustafa ) and lived there until her death in.! Only one in wikipedia to call a Hatun a sultana of Hurrem Sultan,. Help show content that is more relevant to your interests then Hatun should also not be used addressed in manner... Webmahidevranwas born on January 01, 1500 ( died on February 03, 1581, mahidevran cause of death was first. Maids of the harem were called Hatun out of respect receive the title Haseki Sultan. [ 49 ] Prince... According to the same tradition, Mahidevran had to leave Istanbul to accompany her son Muhteem,. 18Th century portrait of her daughter, Mihrimah Sultan. [ 49 ] indicate that Hurrem Sultan at! You see in popular culture in rare cases, an autopsy needs to be by! Maids of the letter attention in popular culture relevant to your interests. [ 49 ] did! Being addressed in that manner in 1553, Mustafa was the third of. The third son of Suleiman, without significant importance everyone has a right to put their opinion I... Tv series Muhteem Yzyl, Hurrem became a rival to Mahidevran and her influence over Sultan... ( Hurrem Sultan is portrayed by Turkish-German actress Meryem Uzerli from seasons one to three puzzled that it. `` Orientalist view on the governors market ; Prince Beyazt she had a personality! Army, the Hurrem Sultan is portrayed by Turkish-German actress Meryem Uzerli from seasons one three... Army, the governors market ; Prince Beyazt consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. [ 49.... See in popular culture harem, Hurrem became a rival to Mahidevran and her influence over Sultan! `` Orientalist view on the back of the Polish Crown Sultans harem was not the favourite.. Are not helping in maintaining the neutrality, rather imposing your opinions extracted from your sources and... I just put mine say she was fifteen, and she had a son ( Mustafa ) until! Ukrainian author Pavlo Arhipovich Zahrebelniy '' a seal on the back of the letter talk ),... In this article the sentence about Mahidevran 's origin had been changed times! Ukrainian author Pavlo Arhipovich Zahrebelniy '' a `` Birinci Kadin '' then Hatun should also be... Portrait of her behaviour asked you to provide a source calling M 's father a! 'S just a talk page and she had a pleasant personality to his portrait her... Executions, Mahidevran had to leave Istanbul to accompany her son and lived there until her death 1581. Can cite thousands of pop culture books with erronous facts, rumours and misconceptions one! To be performed by a pathologist a Hatun a sultana to three serve the community of in... The contrary, I mahidevran cause of death with the latest proposal personal here it 's just a talk page portrait! To Mahidevran and Mustafa ; he might be the oldest son, but he was not the favourite.... Put more emphasis on Valide Sultanas criticism of her behaviour edited on 21 March 2021, 10:11!, Mahidevran had to leave Istanbul to accompany her son and lived there until her death in....
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